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 All Gods Are One God? - Diversification

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Lady Gwendolynn O'Danaan
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PostSubject: All Gods Are One God? - Diversification   Sat Sep 06, 2008 9:40 pm

A long time ago I tried to wrap my brain around the concept (and this was when I was a little girl mind you) that the reason why we had so many gods, was really because, "All gods were one god" (kind of an advanced form of thinking for a 6 or 7 yr old huh?). In attempting to believe and accept this to feel more comfortable with my beliefs I just couldn't seem to really hold it considering how being in the '7th Day Adventist Sec' made me feel. Now granted, the whole concept of, "All gods are one god," is generally nice on paper. It sounds good and it could totally put to rest all the anger and diversity issues people have.

For instance the 'Pledge of Allegiance' could stay the way it is with the only real wieners being the supposed Atheists.

Additionally people might not be attempting to create their own versions of popular songs we've most likely learned since we were children...aside from the ones that openly state, "Jesus," etc. I've seen quite a few pagan sites attempting to create their own songs based on familiar tunes so that pagans can still feel individual and diverse in their beliefs from others. It's cool, don't get me wrong, but if we truly believed in the concept of, "All gods are one god," it would truly make things so much easier.

But that is asking so many people to agree to disagree and that's nearly impossible to even accomplish. While I can believe there can/could be small groups to do this, you can't make everyone in the world agree with you.

I believe this concept is much easier to understand and follow when your someone with *cough* interesting beliefs that borderline Paganism and Wicca/Witta. When you have a polytheistic system of gods, such as myself, the whole concept of, "All Gods are one," makes a hell of a lot more sense and a bit easier to swallow versus, "Hey, let's just all agree to disagree all gods are one god and try and create a much more harmonious world for each other". Ye-ah, a bit of a large piece to even want to chew or consider appetizing without someone feeling like their toes aren't being stepped on.

After all you have Christianity for instance that claims it has one god. However, from a friend I work with who has done some research on Christianity herself, she claims that Christianity in its very, VERY earlier years was originally polytheistic. And the little clue that most people will try and bring in to support that claim is the 10 Commandments, with the first being, "Thou shalt have no other gods before me". Granted if that isn't a big enough hint there are supposedly other gods out there...I don't know what is, but for many even that is not supportive enough as a claim. But let's not forget, the bible has seen much editing and additional chapters, etc over the years by royalty and more. Especially around the times of Emperor Constantine's time when he decreed Christianity to be his state religion for his empire.

So in short, just a little something to think about and please post your ideas, feedback, etc.

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"Though my soul is born from darkness, it shall rise in perfect light, I have loved the stars too fondly, to be fearful of the night". Unknown
"On those nights that I gazed upon the full moon in longing it was always you that my heart was calling." - me
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PostSubject: Re: All Gods Are One God? - Diversification   Sun Sep 07, 2008 3:55 am

well, from what i have gathered, and i am only saying this is from my personal experience and how i pieced it together i might have the puzzle completely mishmashed, the creator source, God if you will, IS the source of everything and all other things, including other deities, are extensions of him. what i am essentially saying is, i believe that the thing in charge of th ebig bang and whatever came before it IS God. that God is that superatom or whatever.

this essentially means that everybody is right. but there then becomes a new problem. if you wanna call that pregenitor source God, what do you call other deities if not gods? last wednsday someone i spoke to at church asked why they can't just be called deities, and i didn't know how to respond. but it just din't feel like it was respctfull enough a word, or fervent enough of a word. th eproblem here is that it all comes back down to people all thinking that they ar eright and everyone else i wrong. nobody even has the maturity to just accept that it is POSSIBLE that everything they know to be absolutely true could be wrong. that it' spossible that everything that they think makes sense is in fact complete nonsense.

in the story in teh bible where the men in the promised land were confronted by the king who had decreed that everyone in his nation bow down to th statue of his god refused to worship any figure not their God, the king told them that if they do not then he will thro them into the pit of lava. they replied "we know that our God will save us from being burned. but even if he is not the holiest God, and does not save us, still we will not bow down to your god."

the point is they acknoledged the "even if" that i am talking about. it is ok to believ you ar eright, but not ok to shove it down someone's throat.
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PostSubject: Re: All Gods Are One God? - Diversification   Sun Sep 07, 2008 8:08 pm

TwilightInsanity wrote:
the point is they acknoledged the "even if" that i am talking about. it is ok to believ you ar eright, but not ok to shove it down someone's throat.

Very good point. That's why they say, just because you believe your faith will save you from demons of your beliefs doesn't mean your body won't be vulnerable to others of other cultures.

Often not just in religion, but when I am trying to have a reasonably well made argument, even when I present evidence that can support my claims as well as 5 more that also support the opposing sides claims, they still try to shove their thoughts and ways down your throat. I think I can say for just about anyone, having someone shove something down your throat is definitely unwanted and if it happens, hope to god your not physically there...might have some issues then depending.

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"For many are called, but few are chosen" - Matthew 22:14 ver. New American Standard.
"Though my soul is born from darkness, it shall rise in perfect light, I have loved the stars too fondly, to be fearful of the night". Unknown
"On those nights that I gazed upon the full moon in longing it was always you that my heart was calling." - me
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PostSubject: Re: All Gods Are One God? - Diversification   Sun Sep 07, 2008 9:13 pm

the problem i have isnt if there is one god or fifteen, its religion in general.

i dont have a problem in beliving in something as anything in religion, or the being "saved" part or anything

its the, i dont want to belive in it just because i want the prize at the end. if im gonna belive in something its because i take the whole, not because i stuck it out to get a prize
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PostSubject: Re: All Gods Are One God? - Diversification   Sun Sep 07, 2008 9:54 pm

my reasons for worshipping Morrigan are out of love. i've never before actualy found any god or goddess to be worth my worship, it just never felt right. why even bother if i can do anything for myself that they could do for me? but i suppose there was omething i just didn't understand. she came into my life, brought me shelter, food, love, she was motherly. and she emediately became someone i loved with my entire being. it is because she came into my life that i am actualy realy alive! before her i didn't care. i was so suicidal i didn't even bother to kill myself. there were peopl i cared about, sure. i stayed alive for them. because thy were dependant on me. but i was still just waiting to die. not anymore.

i wouldn't assume that all christians for example worship jesus because they get heaven, so much as because they love him honestly, for loving them when they feel unworthy. same could be said for any other religion i think. the churches and organizations are just a way to organize these people, to come together and be around others of the same faith, to work together to carry out that god's will out of voluntary service, out of love and a desire to seve him/her. of course there are religions that are only trying to convert others, but even then most people do this because they honestly think that it's the only right way and they just want everyone to be happy.
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PostSubject: Re: All Gods Are One God? - Diversification   Tue Sep 09, 2008 9:27 am

Nataku wrote:
its the, i dont want to belive in it just because i want the prize at the end. if im gonna belive in something its because i take the whole, not because i stuck it out to get a prize

I completely understand and though I feel it's nice that Christians, for example, have something they think is awesome as far as what to look forward to after death. I still don't want their beliefs shoved down my throat with a spoon and then loudly shouting "repent, repent". I truly feel it is better to let people find their own spiritual balance/harmony. For if you aren't happy with the path you've decided to follow it's time to blaze a new trail and I for one don't want to merely follow my beliefs solely out of fear, habit, or insincerity. Insincerity when it comes to matters of the heart, passion, and faith is a like a poison to the body and should not occur to begin with...least that is my opinion.

Oh and I apologize if I don't sound especially coherent. I just got through having a rigorous workout session.

TwilightInsanity wrote:
she came into my life, brought me shelter, food, love, she was motherly. and she emediately became someone i loved with my entire being. it is because she came into my life that i am actualy realy alive!

i wouldn't assume that all christians for example worship jesus because they get heaven, so much as because they love him honestly, for loving them when they feel unworthy. same could be said for any other religion i think. the churches and organizations are just a way to organize these people, to come together and be around others of the same faith, to work together to carry out that god's will out of voluntary service, out of love and a desire to seve him/her. of course there are religions that are only trying to convert others, but even then most people do this because they honestly think that it's the only right way and they just want everyone to be happy.

Luna and the Lord of Night had always been in my life. More specifically the Lord of Night has always made his presence known, I was just not entirely aware of this. He did not entirely provide me with the warmth as Morrigan did for you my friend, but he taught me inner strength and the ability to depend upon myself when the chips were down and I had nothing else or no one else to turn to. He taught me true perseverance. He was probably also the reason why I was such a curious little thing asking questions about faith that I shouldn't...least not in the preconceived notions of the Christian world and at such a relatively young age as I was when I had. But when I had grown, I guess, enough I distinctly remember sensing/hearing his voice echoing within the corridors of my soul saying, "I have taught you all that I can. Go now and walk on your own two feet for you have truly learned how to walk". I think that has to be one of my more prouder moments of my life feeling him say that. And a few short years later I actually was able to give the goddess name - after of course my encounter with the Druid/Shaman I met.

Getting back onto topic though *cough* and not my rambling story time...I definitely do not believe people such as, the Christians, go to church merely because of fear or habit. I do believe some genuinely love Jesus and their God and I'm happy for them. I am glad they found their sense of belonging...just wish it didn't get forced on me half the time. XD
But I also do believe that Christianity is trying to enforce its numbers, maybe not quite as forcefully back in say the days of the Inquisition and the like, but...I don't doubt they wish to expand and the way they believe they may be able to do this is fear.

Someone actually, a co-worker of mine, said that the majority of substance abuse programs are actually Christian based/run. And so when they are trying to get people to come out of their addictive habit they give them a new one that isn't as detrimental to their health, but may be a bit excessive on others if they decide to preach their new faith not to mention a tad close-minded since addictive personality to me seems relatively close to almost an ADD mind-set with a super-fast-forward button, course that depends upon the case.

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"Though my soul is born from darkness, it shall rise in perfect light, I have loved the stars too fondly, to be fearful of the night". Unknown
"On those nights that I gazed upon the full moon in longing it was always you that my heart was calling." - me
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PostSubject: Re: All Gods Are One God? - Diversification   Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:18 am

Nyghtshayde wrote:
Getting back onto topic though *cough* and not my rambling story time...I definitely do not believe people such as, the Christians, go to church merely because of fear or habit. I do believe some genuinely love Jesus and their God and I'm happy for them. I am glad they found their sense of belonging...just wish it didn't get forced on me half the time. XD
But I also do believe that Christianity is trying to enforce its numbers, maybe not quite as forcefully back in say the days of the Inquisition and the like, but...I don't doubt they wish to expand and the way they believe they may be able to do this is fear.

They are so zelous (i actualy could say we, but i am unsure from this last year what i am anymore) because they want others to feel how they do, because they (well.. sometimes) care for the other people. kidna why im straying from that path... i just dont feel that "drop to your knees devotion". nor, have i found out, am i so much passive or passifist. no iv never been in a fight tho >.<


Nyghtshayde wrote:

Someone actually, a co-worker of mine, said that the majority of substance abuse programs are actually Christian based/run. And so when they are trying to get people to come out of their addictive habit they give them a new one that isn't as detrimental to their health, but may be a bit excessive on others if they decide to preach their new faith not to mention a tad close-minded since addictive personality to me seems relatively close to almost an ADD mind-set with a super-fast-forward button, course that depends upon the case.

aye, they are on something less detrimental, but it still costs them the same ammount of money
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PostSubject: Re: All Gods Are One God? - Diversification   Tue Sep 09, 2008 9:06 pm

True Christians do NOT use fear! that is the difference! that is how you can tell when one truely has Christ with him! Christians are about love, not fear. when jesus said "God is my Father" he followed up with "God is your Father too." to be Christian is to be like Christ. the catholics are not christian. the catholics are those who were fooled by the Romans doing their thing and twisting up yet another religion of the people they conquered. cause the Romans have a knack for doing that. they did it to the Greeks, they did it to the Egyptians, and the did it to the Jews.
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PostSubject: Re: All Gods Are One God? - Diversification   Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:04 pm

TwilightInsanity wrote:
True Christians do NOT use fear! that is the difference! that is how you can tell when one truely has Christ with him! Christians are about love, not fear. when jesus said "God is my Father" he followed up with "God is your Father too." to be Christian is to be like Christ. the catholics are not christian. the catholics are those who were fooled by the Romans doing their thing and twisting up yet another religion of the people they conquered. cause the Romans have a knack for doing that. they did it to the Greeks, they did it to the Egyptians, and the did it to the Jews.

Even if they don't use fear, they are still going to be in the mind-set that saving peoples souls from eternal damnation is like doing them a favor even if they generally have already have found their path. I met a very relatively nice Christian whom I believe was a true believer. He had a good heart and presence and I was even able to talk with him about some of the Druidic concepts of my beliefs, but toward the end, what it still came down to was and I quote, "Put all your eggs in the Jesus Christ Basket". Yes; he said that but me, I was already set on what path I needed to follow. Perhaps that meeting wasn't about really conversion...perhaps it was more about, oh...I don't know...maybe the Christian God trying to show me he isn't a total heartless bastard. I don't honestly know for sure, but I know this man was one of the first that made me feel like their can be some even remote hope for remote spiritual harmony in the world.

I got WAAAAY too many stories for too many occasions. You guys need to stop bringing them out of me. XD

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"Though my soul is born from darkness, it shall rise in perfect light, I have loved the stars too fondly, to be fearful of the night". Unknown
"On those nights that I gazed upon the full moon in longing it was always you that my heart was calling." - me
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PostSubject: Re: All Gods Are One God? - Diversification   Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:39 pm

heh, sorry mistress... it is just that having spent so much time at a church that is actualy full of DECENT, TOLERANT, and TRUELY GOOD people has gotten me to open up more and learn more about christianity, and what it realy means. i find myself defending jesus quite often.
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PostSubject: Re: All Gods Are One God? - Diversification   Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:17 am

TwilightInsanity wrote:
heh, sorry mistress... it is just that having spent so much time at a church that is actualy full of DECENT, TOLERANT, and TRUELY GOOD people has gotten me to open up more and learn more about christianity, and what it realy means. i find myself defending jesus quite often.

I only wish I could be so lucky. I haven't met a truly genuine 7th Day Adventist yet that actually believed in just that...what they believed. Would be nice for a change. I had the awkwardness of having some young Christian tweens asking me questions at my place of work about my religious disposition. I kept to my Druidic rules though and spoke very little. I did not say what I was directly, but commented on how I had been raised rather similarly to them, just didn't find that it floated my boat any. XD

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"Though my soul is born from darkness, it shall rise in perfect light, I have loved the stars too fondly, to be fearful of the night". Unknown
"On those nights that I gazed upon the full moon in longing it was always you that my heart was calling." - me
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PostSubject: Re: All Gods Are One God? - Diversification   Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:48 pm

heheh. ^_^

my i ask a question? or rather, a short series of related questions?

1.) i would like to know if druidism involves any abstinence from "un-natural" things, or if the D&D representation of druids is histprically inaccurate.

2.) if so, would this include such things as cars or motorcycles? i mena... those wern't even around to be not allowed at the time, but then again they certainly don't seem like something that a 14th century version of an omish existance would allow.

and 3.) how much of druidism is allowed to be shared with non-druids, if any at all?
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PostSubject: Re: All Gods Are One God? - Diversification   Tue Sep 16, 2008 8:58 pm

the only thing i slightly know that isnt mentioned in D&D, if this is correct too, is druids were, among many things, storytellers. having no written language (or atlest untill what i heard from nyght) it was all passed down oraly and now many many parts have gone missing.
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PostSubject: Re: All Gods Are One God? - Diversification   Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:02 am

that much i knew already, and i believe the tradition originated from norse people, such as germanic and icelandic tribes that migrated. GO VIKINGS! XD

anyway, thank you though nataku! ^_^
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PostSubject: Re: All Gods Are One God? - Diversification   Thu Sep 18, 2008 11:36 pm

TwilightInsanity wrote:
1.) i would like to know if druidism involves any abstinence from "un-natural" things, or if the D&D representation of druids is histprically inaccurate.

2.) if so, would this include such things as cars or motorcycles? i mena... those wern't even around to be not allowed at the time, but then again they certainly don't seem like something that a 14th century version of an omish existance would allow.

and 3.) how much of druidism is allowed to be shared with non-druids, if any at all?

1. Ummm...abstinence from "un-natural"? I don't believe so. The only remote mentioning of even any kind of abstinence is keeping the female and male powers fairly separated. The males and females are opposite of men/women and represent the polar opposite of course in all things (ex: Light and Dark, Birth and Death, Man and Woman, battery vs. absorption). However I do believe that females are capable of producing/creating their own power/energy rather then always drawing it from their male counter-parts...but that is my own belief and my Beloved has seen me demonstrate this through my rituals, prayers, among other things. So at least he can vouch for this, but in general the Druids typically wanted to keep the Druid Priestess sec separated from the males until of course the Lord and Lady deemed it was their time to...unite. It was they did not want the powers tainted. Granted when male and female are also united they can be a very powerful force as they can by themselves.

I briefly played a Druid, so I don't exactly remember all the details about them from the D&D book.

2. Druids are what I almost consider a Shaman/Nature/Hippy. I'm what I call a "Clean Hippy". I love animals more then you could say I like most humans since well..both males and females tend to get on my nerves at points in time, not to mention animals are great listeners and wonderful companions. So leading from there I love nature, but I'm not all about going organic and natural, but I do try and eat as healthy as I can as my ancestors did. I'm relatively clean and neat and have my own perspectives of how the Druids lived based on the research I have found on them and read through accounts made by the Romans and such. I can see that Druidism contains certain aspects of Shamanism and Animism in it so to me they were almost like the native Americans of the European world. *shrugs* Don't know if that helps much but there's a general idea. I just generally love the Earth and try and care for her the best way I know possible while engaging her at times, that is highly important in a Druids life. You never forget the mother that provides you with everything.

3. Typically non-Druids were not to know any of the Druidic order information. If you weren't studying to be a Druid, get lost. Pretty much how to sum it all up. However in more recent years people realize I think that sometimes certain rules become outdated and need to be updated in order to better suit the times, but you have to have a willingness to learn. To me that is THE most important aspect of Druidism at all is the want and willingness to learn. If you have a passion for knowledge and a love for nature I think those individuals should delves slightly into Druidism to learn a little of what they did to celebrate the Earth and the elements.

Nataku wrote:
the only thing i slightly know that isnt mentioned in D&D, if this is correct too, is druids were, among many things, storytellers. having no written language (or atlest untill what i heard from nyght) it was all passed down oraly and now many many parts have gone missing.

Actually I believe I may have actually said the opposite. Ogham was their language. They would string leaves together in an order of symbols and in this way could they read some of the old works. Since leaves were made of the divine (nature/trees) then it was not going against the Druid's code. Druids were indeed Storytellers but were also Politicians, Mediators, Historians, etc. They were so well respected that no one was to bare a naked blade in the presence of a Druid, that's pretty freak'n sweet if you ask me.

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"Though my soul is born from darkness, it shall rise in perfect light, I have loved the stars too fondly, to be fearful of the night". Unknown
"On those nights that I gazed upon the full moon in longing it was always you that my heart was calling." - me
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PostSubject: Re: All Gods Are One God? - Diversification   Sat Sep 20, 2008 10:53 pm

wow... that is all very interesting! O.O
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PostSubject: Re: All Gods Are One God? - Diversification   Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:11 am

I want to make an announcement.

i have decided where i stand on the names for God and gods/goddesses.

i would consider that Progenitor being not just a god, but rather some form of SUper-deity or Ubergod. further, i would consider this being completely genderless (and so i must begin erasing the masculine-form i am conditioned to through christianity), and above anything else. i would refer to this being simple as The Creator, or elvish Ea (The One). i may use certain hebrew names of God to refer to him in teh presence of certain individuas, but only when i can assure myself that those words hold no particular gender connotations.

the other gods and goddesses therefore need no change, and i am comfortable considering them gods and goddeses, lord and ladies, kings and queens, masters and mistresses. all other such names for divine beings such as them.
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PostSubject: Re: All Gods Are One God? - Diversification   Fri Oct 24, 2008 8:39 pm

TwilightInsanity wrote:
I want to make an announcement.

i have decided where i stand on the names for God and gods/goddesses.

i would consider that Progenitor being not just a god, but rather some form of SUper-deity or Ubergod. further, i would consider this being completely genderless (and so i must begin erasing the masculine-form i am conditioned to through christianity), and above anything else. i would refer to this being simple as The Creator, or elvish Ea (The One). i may use certain hebrew names of God to refer to him in teh presence of certain individuas, but only when i can assure myself that those words hold no particular gender connotations.

the other gods and goddesses therefore need no change, and i am comfortable considering them gods and goddeses, lord and ladies, kings and queens, masters and mistresses. all other such names for divine beings such as them.

I believe I definitely agree with this. When I was attempting to write my own creation story for the Lord and Lady I found that the apparent, "All-Father" was the one god that I would consider the Uber god and therefore he/she should be without gender to further imply this. But I do believe you said it best.

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"Though my soul is born from darkness, it shall rise in perfect light, I have loved the stars too fondly, to be fearful of the night". Unknown
"On those nights that I gazed upon the full moon in longing it was always you that my heart was calling." - me
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PostSubject: Re: All Gods Are One God? - Diversification   Sat Oct 25, 2008 11:20 am

it is something i am sure i have alreday felt and maybe even said often enough in the past (i cannot clearly remember for some reason) but always with that certain doubt, as though i wasn't even realy convinced that he or any others existed at all. when i WAS finally convinced of the spiritual it still took me forever to come about being certain of what exactly i believed at all. so i must say i am very happy to have come full circle. ^_^ it says alot for my ability to compare and be unbiased for any particular group of religious zealots.
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PostSubject: Re: All Gods Are One God? - Diversification   

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All Gods Are One God? - Diversification
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