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 Am I Wrong?

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Lunacin
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PostSubject: Am I Wrong?   Mon Apr 07, 2008 12:13 am

One of me friends is a satanist and as far as i can tell there is little to this way of thinking then self indulgence...Am I Wrong?
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Sheion
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PostSubject: Re: Am I Wrong?   Sat Apr 19, 2008 4:27 am

No, not when taken literally, but the religion is not as selfish as it sounds. For example, when you help someone, you do it because it makes you feel good, right? Is that not selfish? However, you also helped someone.

So, it is self-indulgent, but no to the point that one sits on his haunches all day doing nothing. That is counter-productive. Satanism basically encourages everyone to do what's best for him/herself, not because it's "right" or "wrong," but because it's best. For example, helping someone in trouble makes us feel good, which in turn keeps us happy. That's betterment of the self, but it also aids humanity in general. Also, pursuit of knowledge is encouraged. Ignorance is forgivable, so long as it's not willful ignorance, and stupidity is looked down upon. Overall, it's not so different from every other religion out there.
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Nataku
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PostSubject: Re: Am I Wrong?   Sat Apr 19, 2008 10:09 pm

the purpose of religion itself is to save ones soul from eternal punishment... isnt beliving in something just for that... blehh im blanking on the right word to use, but you see where im going
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Sheion
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PostSubject: Re: Am I Wrong?   Sun Apr 20, 2008 12:50 am

Actually, the purpose of religion is so that people have something to believe in that explains things they don't yet understand. To my knowledge, only the mainstream religions really deal with eternal punishment, aka Hell. Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Mormons, etc. Wicca deals with karma, pagans believe in too many different things than I can possibly list here, and Satanists don't really believe in any eternal punishment, besides wasting your time on senseless things instead of gaining knowledge and being eternally stupid. (This is what I've always heard, but if you've heard differently, go ahead and tell me. I'm certainly no expert on religion.)
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Nataku
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PostSubject: Re: Am I Wrong?   Sun Apr 20, 2008 3:46 am

selfish... thats the word i sought
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Lady Gwendolynn O'Danaan
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PostSubject: Re: Am I Wrong?   Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:48 am

Well I really don't know much about the belief, but of the one Satanist I met...well...I suppose people would consider me a "Satanist Sympathizer". My own belief that my friend even agreed with me on was/is that 'Lucifer' himself isn't a bad guy, just misunderstood. I'm pretty certain he realizes he made a mistake and the only reason he isn't up in Heaven is because someone has to play scapegoat and 'Lord of Hell' for the religion. I honestly don't think this brings 'Lucifer' much happiness, but...hell if I know, right? Just my thoughts.

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"Though my soul is born from darkness, it shall rise in perfect light, I have loved the stars too fondly, to be fearful of the night". Unknown
"On those nights that I gazed upon the full moon in longing it was always you that my heart was calling." - me
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Sheion
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PostSubject: Re: Am I Wrong?   Tue May 20, 2008 6:30 am

*nods in agreement*

I don't know if I buy into the whole "Lucifer fell from Heaven blah-de-blah" deal, but if that indeed happened, I don't think he's such a bad guy. According to the Bible, he made a mistake. So what? Since when are mistakes soooo evil? Besides, I don't see it as a mistake, anyway. In order for good to exist, so does evil. Everything has to have an equal and opposite in order for the universe to exist in balance, or for anything to exist, in general. Life and Death, Light and Dark, Good and Evil (which are just human terms).

Going back to the Christian lore, God wants us all to love him, right? Well, there can be no true love if its opposite (hate) doesn't exist. It's like we're mindless robots. Maybe Lucifer understood this and allowed mankind to have the option of not loving God, so that our love for him would be true. But, after he did this, he was punished for "messing with" God's little antfarm.
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Lady Gwendolynn O'Danaan
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PostSubject: Re: Am I Wrong?   Tue May 20, 2008 7:29 am

You make a fairly good argument there Sheion. I can definitely agree.

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"Though my soul is born from darkness, it shall rise in perfect light, I have loved the stars too fondly, to be fearful of the night". Unknown
"On those nights that I gazed upon the full moon in longing it was always you that my heart was calling." - me
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Lunacin
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PostSubject: Re: Am I Wrong?   Wed May 21, 2008 7:41 am

Wait Wait Wait you are all talking about satans "little mistake" now according to the cristi view of the cosmos the god figure was the all powerful one who is the light of all that is good...along comes someone he crated and says "naw im gonna do it now" I'mm sorry but if i was god in his position i would think that lucifer had made more then a "little mistake" i would have done a lot more then just asked him to move out as well...but i digress the thing that makes us all special is the power to "choose" to question our creators...according to the cristi's the angles don't have free will the way we enjoy it...so for one of them to go against their creator was a HUGE deal...

i am really just curious to know why every one thinks this is "little"
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Sheion
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PostSubject: Re: Am I Wrong?   Wed May 21, 2008 12:29 pm

Well, actually I said that I didn't see it as a mistake, and if it is a mistake, then whatever happened to forgive and forget? Or God's unconditional love? (Sending someone to burn forever in Hell sure doesn't sound much like love to me.) If it was a mistake, and Lucifer didn't really mean anything bad by it, then I think God overreacted, making it a "little mistake" as you put it, though I don't know where "little" was mentioned before.

While we're on the subject of God's creations saying, "naw I'm gonna do it now," and them deserving to be cast out of heaven into a fire pit, then what is keeping him from poofing 95% of the human population immediately to Hell?
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TwilightInsanity
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PostSubject: Re: Am I Wrong?   Tue Sep 09, 2008 5:46 am

there are several types of satanism.

LeVeyan Satanism believes that either A.) there is no Heavan and Hell, or B.) that Hell has some layors that are bearable, which would be the party place of those who wern't holy but still didn't deserve eternal torture. they are hedonists and live by rules of self-first. or in the cas eof those who DO care for others, cowardice instead of courage, and cunning over honour. running away is considered the best solution to a anger, and if you cannot and are forced to fight there is no shame in fighting dirty to being down your opponent. they do not believe in mercy.

Luciferian Satanism believes that Lucifer nevr realy fell per say, but that he is secretly still God's most loyal servant. he takes on the role of ruler of Hell, and tempts mortals with evil so that what is Good and Holy has meaning. it is simply his job.

my friend sydney tells me of what she hears from a spirit that stays with her (whom protects her, guides her, syphons her insanely larg amounts of self-generating energy, i swear the girl is a freaking battery! and who intend sto keep her safe during the War.) that the Devil is actualy three sepperate entities. they all decided that God's decision that certain creatures automatically go to heaven when thy die and others to Hell wa sunfair, and so went to war with God over that. afterwards they branched off. Satan wants to rule heaven, Lucifer just wants the afterlife to be far, an that third one i dont know. i think he wants to rule everything or something, just like satan... however it gos, that's what she told me, and i trust her, though i am open to other ideas. after all, it's kind of warped by a half-demon fighter-beed spirit anyway... >.>
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Lunacin
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PostSubject: Re: Am I Wrong?   Sun Sep 28, 2008 6:29 am

Sheion wrote:
While we're on the subject of God's creations saying, "naw I'm gonna do it now," and them deserving to be cast out of heaven into a fire pit, then what is keeping him from poofing 95% of the human population immediately to Hell?

nothing that i can tell...other then a theory i heard a few years ago..."a gods power is directly proportionate to the followers they enjoy."

the thing is, is that the cristi religion by its very nature would make every one who believed in jehovah slightly hypocritical, as they would be giving just as much power to satan just by believing he exists. and given what we know of the biblical jehovah he doesn't like sharing his power or status. ("you shall have no other gods before me!")

given all those thing would it be to far of a reach to assume that jehova and satan are the same person? at best one god two personalities, at worst one god in two roles knowing full well what he is doing?
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Nataku
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PostSubject: Re: Am I Wrong?   Sun Sep 28, 2008 9:45 am

while much of this religion, atleast how i percieve it, is still abhorrent to me. i can see how one can fall to this. i have recently realized, but i now feel that if my bondmate was struck down, my mind would be warped and i would fall to a darkness, and evil and vileness, that would match this. i had always thought i was stronger, that i could live on and be a "hero" or shining light. i now know, i am by no means weak, but i have a breaking point that, if crossed, would mean disaster.

for me and my enemies. in such a state, one cares little for their own safety.


this is little different. caring not at all for what is after current rewards.
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TwilightInsanity
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PostSubject: Re: Am I Wrong?   Tue Sep 30, 2008 3:40 pm

it is my firm belief that nobody can become stronger or more able to keep going on in lif withouthaving first suffered greatly. you must fall befor eyou can rise, you must die bfo eyou can live. it is something i had to learn by experience, and it is why i consider myself a shaman.
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Darkenedviews
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PostSubject: Re: Am I Wrong?   Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:06 pm

A for instance story:
Say you created a race of beings. You wanted them to have free will and see how they evolved with it. For them to have free will and choices, there needed to be things to choose from. So now you need, at minimum, 2 ends to a spectrum. How about Good and Evil. Seems simple enough and the English words are curiously related to the entities Good - o = God and Evil + a flattened o = Devil. (Remember, this is just a fable of mine). So, you now have the choice line, but who do you place at the other end? Someone who totally loves you, was unquestionably trustworth and was very capable of doing whatever it takes to make your experiment work as you wanted. An angel would have the qualities. The most capable would be your favored choice. So is Lucifer doing exactly what what required by God or did he try to usurp the being he loved above all? All in how it's viewed.
Another aspect of God/Devil relationship. Wasn't man created in God's image (according to what these religions decree)? Also, isn't everything God and of God? So, from there, Lucifer is only an extention of God (remember the Holy Trinity... all are one and one are all). The example would be what we are. We are what we think, the mind energies are basically us. So in his/her image there is God/Devil as one... how about simplification to Conscious/Subconscious. So maybe all we are is the neurons of one being all connected by the synapses called life. Just flowing back and forth from the ego, personal unconscious, and collective unconscious.
Funny thing is that the gift of life is all about choices. Even those without physical choice-making abilities are capable of mental choices. So why is religion even necessary? All offer their own flavor of guidelines and rituals. So in the topic of Satanism, isn't it just another form of trying to set down expanation/guidelines of another human beings view of how it is?
Personally my views are ever changing as I take in all pieces of the puzzle that I find. My wanderings have shown, with personal observations, that there are powers at work in this world we have no concept about. Also that there are human factors attempting to swing balances in an ongoing travesty.
True, Satanism is based on the individual (opposite Christianity based on others first), but they are both just another guideline that was created to fit someone into a slot somewhere. So my fable ends with just a simple thought.
Being given the gift and the choices that come with it, why categorize any one or thing. We are all from One and will return to make the Whole more. So Satanism is purely an attempt to self categorize what should in reality be unique.
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Darkenedviews
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PostSubject: Re: Am I Wrong?   Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:11 pm

Lunacin wrote:
Sheion wrote:
While we're on the subject of God's creations saying, "naw I'm gonna do it now," and them deserving to be cast out of heaven into a fire pit, then what is keeping him from poofing 95% of the human population immediately to Hell?

nothing that i can tell...other then a theory i heard a few years ago..."a gods power is directly proportionate to the followers they enjoy."

the thing is, is that the cristi religion by its very nature would make every one who believed in jehovah slightly hypocritical, as they would be giving just as much power to satan just by believing he exists. and given what we know of the biblical jehovah he doesn't like sharing his power or status. ("you shall have no other gods before me!")

given all those thing would it be to far of a reach to assume that jehova and satan are the same person? at best one god two personalities, at worst one god in two roles knowing full well what he is doing?


Curious, where is it said that hell exists? Seems the bible refers to it as something that will be created, not that already exists.
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Lady Gwendolynn O'Danaan
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PostSubject: Re: Am I Wrong?   Sat Feb 21, 2009 8:31 pm

I have no idea what particular chapter it says, but I've heard and read other indications pointing that in order for Lucifer to have been cast down there to begin with, it needed to already exist.

And what happened to your intro? I thought you posted one in the Meadow.

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"For many are called, but few are chosen" - Matthew 22:14 ver. New American Standard.
"Though my soul is born from darkness, it shall rise in perfect light, I have loved the stars too fondly, to be fearful of the night". Unknown
"On those nights that I gazed upon the full moon in longing it was always you that my heart was calling." - me
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