my search for the roots of Faerie

i have find an interesting extra connection between celtic and greaco-roman lore. here, read the author comment.

http://yvonnevetjens.deviantart.com/art/Nantosuelta-102678977

she remind sme of Mother Morrigan, and even has similar backround. recognizing the reverence inw hich both the greaco-romans an the celts had to Fae, it isn't hard to imagine that she also was, like Morrighan, a Faerie goddess.

another correlation. the Goddess Brigit, later Christianized as St. Briget.

http://www.aztriad.com/brigit.html

she is a triple-aspect goddess, and also carries magical abilitie sin stories that resemble thos eof the Fae. with flowers springing up under her feet wherever she walks, and a mantle that she could cause to mischieveously grow from a normal size to epic proportions. she has resemblance to the Greek Hecate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boudica

this woman is a Warior-woman celt and was the wife of an ally of Rome. when her husband died his will, which stated that the emperor or rome would co-inherit his kingdom along with his wife and daughters, was ignored, and Boudica and her daughters were raped and beaten, and her Tribe, the Iceni, were enslaved by Rome. the Iceni and their neighboring tribes revolted against rome, proclaiming Boudica (whose name means "Victory") as their leader.

the following is a short discussion with someone.

Hi, thanks for your message, and sorry for my late reply! First of all, please note that I'm not officially and expert on this stuff, and that some stuff I'll write down is simply my own opinion. I studied art history (mostly medieval art) and I also took some lessons from a Celtic study, but for the rest it's all self-study.

About Celtic heritage: It's impossible for anyone (in Europe at least) to find out about ancient bloodlines and stuff like that, because it hasn't been written down. Maybe in the future they'll develop some awesome DNA research techniques, but for now all people who say they have ancient Celtic or German heritage mostly talk from a cultural point of view. Also, as you probably know too, peoples in Europe have been on the move quite a lot, especially in the early Middle Ages (the so called Dark Ages) so the chance is very big that the people who live in a certain place nowadays simply aren't the same people as 2000 years ago.

Who were the Celts? They weren't a race. The most popular theory is that the Celts were a group of people who spoke the Celtic language (so they were connected through language), traces of which can still be found on the British Isles + Northern France. Another well known theory is that they were connected through culture, art, and also religion to some extent. This Celtic culture was all over Europe, but especially in Central Europe. There were also Celts in Spain, Turkey and in Northern-Italy. The name 'Celts' is arbitrary, and is just one name for many tribes who all had their own name. The Lepontii, who lived in the Alps, are an example. During the Roman invasions, Celts were pushed northwards, and this is probably when they went into the British Isles (not sure though)
NB most of the names of Celtic tribes we have are Latin, or Latinized, names.

When the Romans went into the Celtic countries, they brought their own culture with them, and the Celtic countries became romanized. I'm sure the Romans also brought Greek habits with them, like drinking wine, but I don't know much about direct meetings between Celtic and Greek culture. I'm sure some of that happened, mainly through trade.
Romanization didn't always happen through war and battle. Sometimes it went in a rather peaceful way(eventhough the Romans were officially still the oppressors). This is when Celtic gods got their human appearance, which is really a rather classical thing. When you look at La Tène art, which is popularly seen as Celtic Art, since it's found in many Celtic areas, you will hardly find humans. There are many images, statues, of triple goddesses, and I don't believe that researches still know whether this is a Celtic or a classic thing. Even though there was a lot of trade going on, and especially in the more southern parts of the Celtic lands there was much contact with the classical world, as is evident in archaeological finds, I don't think that these people really knew each other gods. This shows in the fact that the Romans called the Celtic gods by Roman names, i.e. a god that showed roughly the same traits as Apollo or Mars came to be known by that name in the classic world (which is our main written source about the Celts).

So you see it's really not that easy to go and compare gods from different cultures with each other, even though they fall within the same Indo-European context.
About Diana and Don/Dana - when you look at the origins of these goddesses, they're worlds and ages apart. Diana is a classical Roman goddess, mostly known from Roman/Italian religion, statues, and maybe texts (but I'm not sure about that). As far as I know, Dana appears in Irish medieval stories about the Tuatha De Danann. Note, these stories could be ancient, but the earliest sources we have for them are from, I believe, somwheren between the 9th and the 13th century (should look that up). Same goes for Brigit and Hekate - both goddesses do indeed have a triple aspect, but as far as I know that's really all they have in common. Just like Dana and Diana, they're worlds apart.

I think the best author to start with is Miranda J. Green. She's really an autority when it comes to ancient Celtic religion. If you want to look at the connection between Celtic and Greek culture, I think you could start with reading about Marseille in South-France, which used to be a very important Celtic trading center for the classical world. Maybe there are also connections between Celts and Etruscans (who were, I believe, very influenced by Greek culture) but I dunno much about that.

Phew...OK, I hope you found something consistent in all my rambling, lol. Hope it helps, and please let me know if you have comments/remarks/questions!

Yvonne

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Twilight16Master said the following:

first of all thank you for agreeing to talk with me on this subject. you see, i realy am extremely set on finding a connection between the Fae and my own ancestors. i am 3/8 itallian, and yet i know that i have some kind of faerie heritage, believed to be from the itallian side of my ancestory. other than that, i have like 1/8 or 1/16 native american, considerable german and polish, and little bits of both british and eastern european white.

anywho, when it come sto bloodlines i was just hoping to find out if you knew of any connections in ancestory of either the Celts or the Tuatha'De Danaan to other places. i had personally felt a belief that the goddess Dana was likely another name for the greek Diana.= you see, and this was backed up by the similarities in appearance, and associations, as well as the fact that the faeries of greece and rome were the most similar to the celtic and british faeries of all myths. also, the goddess Briget (who was christianized as a saint) apparrently bears close similaritie sto the greek Hecate, both being triple-aspect goddesses of the moon, healing, crafts and inspiration. and then you had your artwork which showed yet ANOTHER mythological figure with ties to greece.

as for myths and legends i guess anything. ^_^ i am particularly looking for celtic-greek paralells.

People I think in their heads always have some general idea of what their god (s) looks like. Romans may have brought the concept of, "This is what we think our gods look like," to the Celts but that's not to say that there are still very good close similarities between them. You still have that gods/goddess' general position in the world and what they symbolize. If that is not the biggest connection between other gods and goddesses from other cultures, I don't know what is. It just seems a bit "closed-off" if we just go off the idea that Romans brought the idea of humanizing their gods in a way they could relate. They might have been a few of the firsts to do it, but that means nothing when it comes to identifying how similar the gods codes, conducts, position, etc are. There are many triple goddess aspects around the world and I just finished reading, "Maiden Mother Crone" on some of them. If that isn't the biggest clue to the Triple-goddess being ever present in peoples lives in some way shape or form, then I might as well stop researching now if I'm just going to be thwarted by non-open-minded people. XP But I'm stubborn as all hell so...I keep at it.

heheh. XD i just want to really hear out everyone's side really. I in no way take everything she has said as definite truth. Just more possibilities to consider.

I know. lol XD

still, i do like your saying that, it helps by making for a good reminder-type back-and-foth.

And since your research is nestled here it helps others follow and understand where everyone is coming from as far as their different perspectives go.

exactly! sharing knowledge is good. it is what differentiates me from the Catholic Bishops for example, who, though knew many secrets, continued to lie to people and make double standards, protected by secrecy and the fact that they knew what others did not.

Indeed. Many orders throughout history have had their fair share of secrets.

i hope everyone here finds this usefull.

As do I.

Hey Twilight, Alaric's been having me read some stuff for his comic he wants me to eventually work on and while I was reading it I thought it could benefit your research on this matter. Here is the link: Pathwalker's Guide to the Nine Worlds. They mention in a few sections about the possible human Fey decendance and the like and what traits they might possess. It's not hard physical evidence but evidence nonetheless. I'm still working on finding more info for you. See I do keep working all the time on all sorts of things. XP

Oh and Lunacin said something about looking into the 'Tuatha de Tir" but I got zip on them and the search engine pulled up nothing. Don't know if you'll be able to find a thing about them.

alright, well, thank you much! i'll get on it. but first i wanted to post some stuff i got over the past couple days. here it is, from contacts on GaiaOnline.

Connor Erin Riley wrote:

Chieftain Twilight wrote:

Connor Erin Riley wrote:

Chieftain Twilight wrote:

Connor Erin Riley wrote:

Chieftain Twilight wrote:

It would be my pleasure! *holds out a hand to shake.* link me to it and i will give my in depth lecture of the findings of myself and Lady Ehzra, on the topic of proving the existance of the Tuatha as a living people, and there continued bloodlines!

THank you!!!! I'm sorta the thread's bard.... telling stories of old....http://www.gaiaonline.com/forum/gaia-aquarium/original-kiss-me-i-m-irish-and-grab-my-irish-booty/t.48018173/ Feel free to ask me any question you wish.

you can be certain i will dear! ^.^

I will answer them all to the best of my ability.

alright, well, i have posted, and am willing to answer specific questions as well, and engage in discussions. ^_^

my first question for you however, would be how do you know that your great great grandfather was a Tuatha?

Family lore.... a few odd not quiet normal occurances, and the fact that when we did karotypes for my parents and brother, my brother and dad were shown to have dna not found in most other humans.... and only in some Irish decended families...

this i extremely interesting! i have to report this to Ehzra of course, if it is alright with you. ^_^

Connor Erin Riley wrote:

Chieftain Twilight wrote:

Connor Erin Riley wrote:

Chieftain Twilight wrote:

Connor Erin Riley wrote:

Chieftain Twilight wrote:

you can be certain i will dear! ^.^

I will answer them all to the best of my ability.

alright, well, i have posted, and am willing to answer specific questions as well, and engage in discussions. ^_^

my first question for you however, would be how do you know that your great great grandfather was a Tuatha?

Family lore.... a few odd not quiet normal occurances, and the fact that when we did karotypes for my parents and brother, my brother and dad were shown to have dna not found in most other humans.... and only in some Irish decended families...

this i extremely interesting! i have to report this to Ehzra of course, if it is alright with you. ^_^

It's alright all the regulars at the Irish thread already know..... btw the Family name of me Irish side is Morgan in modernized form.

!!!! YOU'RE KIDDING!!

StormofStarzZ2 wrote:

Hi there Twilight and thanks for the lovely information. Most I was aware of already and some was new to me.
I have also found some interesting facts of the history of Ireland, in particular the following-
Later stories tell us how the Sons of Mil arrived in Ireland from Spain and, after many adventures and battles, eventually took possession of it from the defeated Tuatha DeDanann. These Sons of Mil are said to be the forefathers of the Gaelic people, both Irish and Scottish, and their descendants are therefore technically still in charge of Ireland.
I am what is called "Black Irish" meaning that my family in Ireland (Co. Galway) seems to come from this invasion as shown by the dark hair and olive skin tones and smaller stature in comparison to my children and their father whos family is from Co. Limerick and all have the more Norse look of being light skinned with very blonde hair.
Hmmmm interesting indeed :3nod:
The 5 invasions of Ireland

StormofStarzZ2 wrote:

Connor~Lass indeed it has! With some help from you my little Fae~Lass
Here is why red hair is so common in Ireland:

But why do we have such numbers in these parts of the British Isles today and not others? The answer, says Bodmer, is that red-hair genes were common among the first Britons and that populations in the archipelago’s fringes still carry their bloodline.

“Genes for red hair first appeared in human beings about 40,000 to 50,000 years ago,” agrees Rees.

These genes were then carried into the islands by the original settlers, men and women who “would have been relatively tall, with little body fat, athletic, fair-skinned and who would have had red hair”, says David Miles, of English Heritage.

Redheads therefore represent the land’s most ancient lineages. So if you want an image of how those first people appeared, don’t think of a hairy savage with a mane of thick black hair. Contemplate instead a picture of a slim, ginger-haired individual: Prince Harry, perhaps, or the actress Nicole Kidman who has Scottish and Irish descent.

Why did those early Britons have so many redheads in their midst in the first place? Is there an evolutionary advantage to having red hair in this part of the world? According to Rees, the answer may be yes.

The MC1R variants that cause red hair also have an effect on the skin. As a result, redheads do not make enough of the dark pigment melanin to protect them against the sun’s powerful ultraviolet rays. Their skin rarely tans. It just burns or freckles.

I guess I am a mix......I am short with dark red hair and hazel eyes, though I am olive toned, I never tan but always burn or freckle :xp:

Irish Tribesman: Red Hair

Aliens or no? The Tuatha De Danann

Tuatha De Danann History

Early Peoples of Ancient Ireland
Look for Agnoman of Scythia and Nemed in these. The Tuatha are supposedly descended from Nemed of Scythia which is interesting. Partholón was suposedly the leader of the 2nd group to invade Ireland. There are two versions of his history one of which where he loses an eye after murdering his father Sera, King of Greece. (Hmmm...sounds like Odin when he gave up his eye for the knowledge of the runes).
Partholon supposedly defeated the Formorians, led by Ciocal, at Magh lthe, in the 1st battle fought in Ireland.

Partholon
Nemed - Interesting note; Nemed's 1st born son was named Artur. 9 yrs later, after living in Ireland, Nemed died of plague.
Nuada Airgetlám - 1st King of the Tuatha Dé Danann. He and the Tuatha encountered the Fir Bolg, current inhabitants at the time of Ireland. The Dagda at this time was a member of the Tuatha and defended Nuada in battle. Lugh later joined the court of the Tuatha to aid in the battle against his grandfather Balor and Bres. In the passages I read they refer to Lugh as a multi-talented youth lending back to his duties as a Celtic god.

Supposed the Tuatha De came from four Northern cities (they didn't say where exactly from or where these cities were but they give them names) Falias, Gorias, Murias, Finias (Dirge of the 4 Cities).

Balor (The Evil Eye) was the king of the Fomorians.
Lugh Lamhfada -
^---Son of Ethlinn (daughter of Balor) and Cian of the Tuatha De Danann.
^---Grandson to Balor and his destroyer.
Birog rescued Lugh after Balor tried to drown him and his other brothers, managing only to save him, adopted him, and named him Lugh and he was made a member of the Tuatha De. In the battle against his grandfather, after Balor killed Nuada in battle, Lugh took over as king of the Tuatha in his stead.

The Tuatha De Danann - Family Tree?

Druid Grove - Falias, Gorias, Murias, and Findias - Might be of interest.
Daoine Sidge / Tuatha De Danann?
Pantheon.org - Tuatha De Danann / Daoine Sidhe

I'm still adding on to this so hang on. Wikipedia is not going to be my only source of info but its good as a quick general reference for finding pieces of evidence to look for based off the information they provide on their site.

i have finally set this up in my Guild on Gaiaonline.

TwilightInsanity wrote:

i have finally set this up in my Guild on Gaiaonline.

Just the topic itself or all that we've got so far on the topic Dusk (Twilight, play on words)?

please don't feel the need to not call me Twilight. i don't give a damn how many people mistake it for me being a twilight fan, i know i'm not. damnit, i fight against sexism actively! >.<

anywho, this whole topic, plus the topic on the info about the Tuatha'De Danaan.

TwilightInsanity wrote:

please don't feel the need to not call me Twilight. i don't give a damn how many people mistake it for me being a twilight fan, i know i'm not. damnit, i fight against sexism actively! >.<

anywho, this whole topic, plus the topic on the info about the Tuatha'De Danaan.

lol Oh hun that's not why I didn't call you Twilight. I just don't think "Twilight" suits you as a shadow name. But that's just me dear. And don't ask me what I think would be a better one cause I wouldn't know.

heh... oh well. if you say so. =w= Dusk is good. i still like Twilight. i'm use dto being called Twi

Hi, I've been studying the Celtic legends for awhile now and still haven't found a clear cut discribition of how the Tauth De Dannan became the Faerie. Losing a battle and moving into the Otherworld seems to simple in compairison to the very rich mythology of the Irish. Does anyone know of any referance material that I should be looking for?

hmm... well, you could always ask around at Metaphysical shops, Ren Faires, Otherkin sites and the like... using Google could realy help too.

i'm afraid the most info i have ever found on them came from research of the Celts, Gaelics and Nordic people, and their mythologies. however, Greaco-Roman information had some interesting similarities.

Very true, I've still got alot of reading to do on the topic. I may come up with something. If I do I'll let you know.

coolio.